A handful of cannabis companies recently initiated a lawsuit with U.S. Attorney General Merrick Garland regarding the negative effects of federal prohibition, which hinders their business. According to the plaintiffs, which includes Massachusetts-based Canna Provisions Inc., Wiseacre Farm, Inc., and Gyasi Sellers, and Illinois-based Verano Holdings Corp., the Controlled Substances Act (CSA) causes harm to their respective businesses and is unconstitutional.
The lawsuit document filed on Oct. 26 refers to a court ruling, Gonzales v. Raich, from nearly 20 years ago. “In 2005, the United States Supreme Court held that because Congress intended to ‘eradicate’ marijuana from interstate commerce, including both economic and noneconomic uses of marijuana, the federal government had a rational and therefore lawful purpose in intruding on the states’ internal regulation of marijuana,” the lawsuit stated. “…This unjustified intrusion of federal power harms Plaintiffs, threatens the communities they serve, and lacks any rational purpose.”
The plaintiffs are represented by law firm Boies Schiller Flexner and Lesser, Newman, Aleo, & Nasser LLP, specifically principal David Boies, who has previously represented clients such as Microsoft, Al Gore, and a wide variety of others since it was founded in 1997.
Boies explained that with more than 38 states legalizing cannabis, the 2005 court case is. “Outdated precedents from decades ago no longer apply—the Supreme Court has since made clear that the federal government lacks the authority to regulate purely intrastate commerce; moreover, the facts on which those precedents are based are no longer true,”
Canna Provisions Inc. offers free training for those interested in a job in the legal cannabis industry, but because it’s illegal under the CSA, it “has been barred by one of the primary career services organizations in Massachusetts, MassHire, from posting jobs or running workshops.” Employees have also had their personal bank accounts closed and mortgages decline due to working “in a lawful intrastate marijuana businesses.”
While Wiseacre Farm, Inc. cultivates legally in Massachusetts, it was barred from leasing more farming land because its activities were deemed illegal under the CSA. “That illegal status renders farmers unwilling to lease their underused farmland to Wiseacre Farm out of fear that having marijuana cultivated on their land will cause them to lose federal agriculture grant money,” the lawsuit explained.
Gyasi Sellers, who is CEO of the delivery service Treevit, delivers to communities that were negatively impacted by the War on Drugs and offers jobs for ex-offenders, but faced many hurdles in order to operate his legitimate business. “These include not being able to obtain loans from the Small Business Administration, which deems his and all other marijuana businesses ‘ineligible for SBA financial assistance,’ regardless of whether they comply with state law,” the document stated.
Finally, Verano Holdings Corp., which is a Canadian-based company that is primarily based in Illinois but also operates in Massachusetts and in other states as well. However, the restrictions of the CSA prevent them from conducting various cultivation, manufacturing, medical, and adult-use licenses. “Because of that illegal status, Verano faces ongoing harms, including that Verano’s Massachusetts retail operations are unable to accept credit cards,” the document stated. “That illegal status also results in Verano having to pay higher insurance premiums and limits Verano in terms of service providers willing to work with the company.”
Following all of these individual experiences with the difficulties of operating a cannabis business under the CSA, the section concluded: “All of these harms, along with numerous other harms to Plaintiffs alleged herein, are caused by the federal government’s unconstitutional ban on cultivating, manufacturing, distributing, or possessing intrastate marijuana.”
In a press statement, Boies explained how federal criminalization of safe cannabis businesses is unfair and denies small businesses the opportunity and services that they should be eligible for. “The federal government lacks authority to prohibit intrastate cannabis commerce,” Boies said. “Outdated precedents from decades ago no longer apply—the Supreme Court has since made clear that the federal government lacks the authority to regulate purely intrastate commerce; moreover, the facts on which those precedents are based are no longer true.”
Verano President Darren Weiss explained their intention to have the CSA ruled unconstitutional. “We are prepared to bring this case all the way to the Supreme Court in order to align federal law with how Congress has acted for years,” Weiss said. “We believe that the Supreme Court will adhere to the core value on which our country was founded and which is central to guaranteeing freedom: that the federal government’s powers are limited.”
Canna Provisions CEO and co-founder, Meg Sanders, also explained their desire for equal treatment as all other Massachusetts-based small businesses.
Many other lawsuits have attempted to challenge or address the CSA, including the previously mentioned 2005 Gonzales v. Raich lawsuit. In May 2022, a Pennsylvania court ruled that cannabis is still a controlled substance, but in October 2022, a Nevada state judge ruled that cannabis should be removed from the state list of controlled substances.
But, you might be wondering about the cost. During the Kickstarter campaign, you can grab it early bird pricing for just $420 USD. It’s an investment that’s well worth considering, especially when you factor in the money you’ll save on buying weed once you start growing your own.
Now, let’s delve into why VGrow is a game-changer:
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LED Lights that Love Your Plants (and Your Wallet): VGrow boasts energy-efficient Samsung LM301H EVO LED lights that mimic sunlight. You can customize the lighting to fit your plant’s needs, and they’re designed to save energy and last forever. Well, not forever, but for at least 50,000 hours.
Intelligent Control: Your Garden in Your Pocket: VGrow boasts a fully automatic IoT grow system compatible with both iOS and Android.
VGrow’s primary goal is to maximize your plant’s yield with minimal effort on your part.
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Get All the Help You Need: Don’t fret if indoor gardening feels like a foreign language. All the accessories you need to start growing are included, and VIVOSUN supports you with grow guides, a friendly customer support team, and an online community of fellow gardening enthusiasts. You’re not alone in this journey.
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About VIVOSUN:
VIVOSUN is a trusted name in indoor gardening, committed to quality, innovation, and user experience. With a range of products designed to simplify indoor gardening, VIVOSUN is the go-to choice for growers worldwide.
Meta Platforms Inc., aka Mark Zuckerberg’s tech giant behind social media giants like Facebook and Instagram, has chosen to ignore advice from its ethics watchdog regarding how the platform manages posts connected to psychedelics.
The drama dates back to a 2022 “paid partner” post that promoted a ketamine treatment as a “medicine” and a “magical entry into another dimension,” Bloomberg reports. The post yo-yoed on the platform, like a law implemented, then overturned, then reinstated, depending on which party is in the White House.
Ketamine, discovered in 1956 and approved in 1970, is a dissociative anesthetic with psychedelic traits. It first became famous in battlefield settings like Vietnam for its ability to maintain stable blood flow, gaining a reputation as a safer anesthetic than opioids and being listed on the World Health Organization’s List of Essential Medicines. Besides being an alternative to opiates, recent studies highlight its potential for treating depression, PTSD, and other mental health conditions, making it the only legal psychedelic medicine at the federal level. While it can certainly help transform someone’s life, the drama boils down to whether it’s a good idea to promote it as a medicine that could provide a magical entry into another dimension. Is that just a nice way to describe a medically induced k-hole, or is it irresponsible for IG to allow it to be posted?
Fast forward to August of 2023, and Meta’s Oversight Board didn’t just overturn Meta’s decision to keep the post alive, but also used it as a jumping off point for more sweeping recommendations. The board expressed concerns over what they termed “inconsistently enforced” guidelines about the selling or promoting of substances that sit in the gray areas of legal medicine and recreational fun, such as ketamine, which doctors prescribe off-label for depression and other mental health conditions.
However, despite members of the psychedelics community believing that Meta is far too strict, censoring content, they responded to the board’s recommendation with resistance. While they agreed to the board’s suggestions regarding clarifying “paid partnerships,” they chose to ignore the stricter guidance on users posting about ketamine and other psychedelic medicines.
Regarding the audit that the board’s been championing, Meta used the tried-and-tried technique of procrastination. They responded that they would “assess the feasibility” in 2024, responding that their current “machine-learning automation” already does a good job at flagging potentially dangerous content in violation with their boundaries.
Meta’s surprising but welcome (for the psychedelics community) decision came after input from about 15 different parties, including Mindbloom, the telehealth company that prescribes ketamine at-home. Mindbloom has been lobbying for Meta to chill and allow posts containing psychedelic content. But the board isn’t happy.
“The board is concerned about inconsistent enforcement of Meta’s policies with regards to pharmaceutical and non-medical drugs,” Dan Chaison, an Oversight Board spokesperson, said in an email, writes Bloomberg. “It stands by its recommendation that Meta should clarify the policy language around content that admits to using or promoting pharmaceutical drugs. The board will closely monitor Meta’s progress toward the recommendations from this case.”
The standing policy permits content that “admits to using or promotes the use of pharmaceutical drugs,” even if it might induce a “high,” provided it’s framed within a “supervised medical setting.” The board emphasized the need for Meta to be clearer about what this setting entails.
In the past, the Oversight Board, funded by Meta, has tackled topics such as COVID-19 misinformation. But Meta isn’t bound to follow its recommendations, and perhaps felt that sharing information, even magical, about ketamine, is different than allowing people to promote faux remedies for a potentially fatal illness such as COVID-19. Companies such as Mindbloom would have lost out on opportunities to promote their mail-order ketamine services. Michael Petegorsky, Mindbloom’s General Counsel, expressed, “This decision is a big win for people who use ketamine therapy and other psychedelic medicines.” He believes it paves the way for individuals to “speak freely about these emerging mental-health treatments using their own words, and without revealing private health information.
However, playing devil’s advocate, as the research behind ketamine’s use for depression is still rolling in, there are those who would make the case that posts calling ketamine magical for depression, which is also a deadly disease, is also irresponsible. Ketamine’s side effects vary based on factors like dosage and how it’s taken. Generally speaking, users might experience feelings of being out of their body, dizziness, altered perceptions, and euphoria (which is usually welcome). Nausea and vomiting are among the most reported negative side effects. While overdosing on ketamine is rare, people must be careful to avoid activities like driving post-intake. Notable, excessive consumption can lead to bladder, urinary, and kidney issues. Responsible providers will share all of this information with patients before they begin treatment, but as it exists in a legal gray area, and considering that not all medical providers have their patient’s best interest at heart, deciding how and where ketamine should be promoted as a treatment for depression and other mental health conditions is sure to be a continued hot topic not just for Meta, but for the psychedelic community.
Surely, hand-blown glass pipes and tubes are the modern connoisseur’s weapon of choice. Their sleek, smooth feel and exquisite psychedelic swirls, marbles and designs are only outdone by the outstandingly pristine tokes each use delivers. It’s a genuine marriage of beauty and practicality.
Of course, there are cheaper ways to smoke your stash, but with today’s high pot prices, most money-conscious smokers think twice before rolling up monster fatties with double-wide rolling papers.
Glassblowing is an ancient trade, dating back before the time of Christ. Then, as now, it was taught via a system of apprenticeship wherein a master blower passes the art down to upcoming generations with closely monitored, hands-on training in the workshop. The preferred style of pipe and tube blowers today is called lampworking, which originated on the island of Muranojust off the coast of Venice, Italy. There, glassblowing was enhanced and sculpted into an artform. That’s because the Italian Mafia ordered the glass masters to the island to protect the prized secrets of the Venetian blowers. As a result, the arts of the Venetian masters remained a closely guarded monopoly for decades. But centuries later, glassblowing has gone legit. Today, anyone can learn it, with a number of available apprenticeships and various glass schools located across the country.
The original Pyrex glass pipes came out of Akron, OH in the early ’70s. One of the first on the scene was a blower named Chuck Murphy. At the time, he was only blowing clear pipes. His were good, but it was the passion of his apprentice Bob Snodgrass that launched the glass revolution. After a few weeks of watching Murphy blow pipes, Snodgrass got his chance to step up to the torch and help out with the production process.
“Fire burns and glass cuts, that was my first lesson,” Snodgrass laughs. “The only thing I was really proud of making during that time was a glass mushroom pendant.”
His maiden experience with fire came when he was young, while burning brush and branches on the family farm. He was only four years old and thought the objective of burning the trash was to keep the fire going. He was enraptured and couldn’t keep himself from feeding the flames.
“I made a promise to the coals and burning embers that I’d keep the fire going,” Snodgrass, who is now 52, recalls. “It was real for me, watching the blaze.”
High Times Magazine, December 1998
What he became was the present-day Dali of counterculture glassblowers. Snodgrass is revered by his peers as the Godfather of Glass, especially since it seems by most blowers’ testimony that it was he alone who turned on practically everyone involved in the pipe and tube-blowing industry.
His creations are simply extraordinary. Full-blown homages to the Grateful Dead, fire-breathing dragons inside shotgun tubes, futuristic alien scenarios—anything his, or your, imagination can conceive.
Snodgrass gave birth to a hip new glass culture of highly creative young men and women who literally blew life into an age-old industry, giving it a modern, psychedelic look, while also bearing in mind the true, functional purpose of each piece.
The explosion in glass pipes hit when the blowers of a generation ago traveled with the hordes on Grateful Dead tours, selling their wares to put together enough money to get to the next show. Most of those pieces were poorly made, sometimes manufactured out of the back of blowers’ cars without even being put into a kiln. This is a must if a blower wants to lock the chemical structure of the glass into a hard, stress-free piece. Otherwise, it’s liable to break.
But those nomadic blowers had a flair for psychedelia—ingenious pieces that took the art of glassblowing up the high road. Because of the trippy designs and clean hits the glass provided to pot-smokers, genuine connoisseurs swarmed to these beautiful pipes. In the last, great days of the Dead, nobody in Jerry-land ever had a problem finding a gorgeous glass pipe.
When Garcia died in 1995, a lot of people found themselves without their normal traveling-circus routine and were left without much to do. Some glassblowers settled down in cities and towns that seemed friendly to their skills—places like Seattle, Eugene. Berkeley and Boulder, CO. They set up shops and formed businesses, hiring and apprenticing many of their friends who were equally bereft of activities following the demise of the Dead.
One company that sprouted up during this period was Jerome Baker Designs. Baker, who owns the company, is one of the world’s premier tube blowers. Based in Eugene, JBD is a well-rounded corporation employing approximately 25 men and women, ranging from beginners to longtime blowers.
One of the most respected and successful glassware companies today. JBD specializes in killer glass bongs at affordable prices. They ship hundreds of tubes from their Eugene shop every week and have two shifts of glassblowers hard at work to keep up with demand. Most gratifying, according to company spokeswoman Sephra Baker, is that “Jerome has hired a lot of his friends who didn’t have jobs and gave them a trade and a future career.”
Not everyone stopped traveling altogether. Other tours sprang up to fill the gap—Lollapalooza. H.O.R.D.E.. Smokin’ Grooves and the Warped Tour, to name a few. Many glassblowers were eager to stay on the road and rake in the bucks. They were also glad to pick up new vendors in the growing mail-order market.
Blowers were busier than ever by ’96 and concentrated on advancing their prowess in order to keep up with new competition, which by now had become fierce on the West Coast. At the recent World Hemp Expo Extravaganja (WHEE2!) near Eugene, which featured live glassblowing demonstrations, the number of blowers exhibiting and selling their products doubled since the first WHEE event. Currently, there are over a thousand glassblowers in Lane County, which includes the Eugene area. These staggering numbers are sure to increase over the next few years as the stoners of America find new ways to express themselves.
Competition, of course, has amped production. Custom-ordered pipes and bongs are now shipped all over the country to the delight of smokers everywhere, and gourmet headshops carry a variety of glass-blown wonders. Craig Rubin, owner of 2000 BC, L.A.’s premier headshop, says, “In the early days, I’d go to the Dead shows with a pocket full of cash specifically to buy glass for my store. Now, glass pipes and tubes are definitely our number-one seller out of everything we carry.”
It’s big business, with estimates that the industry exceeds $10 million. And that figure doesn’t include the business which is done on the barter system.
Most of the glass artists have only been practicing their craft for the past two to three years. Yet, a whole new element of design and structure seems to sprout up every time a new blower comes on the scene. A prime example is a group of innovative young blowers from Rollinsville, CO who in ’95 started Spaceglass, a shop that specializes in beautiful waterpipes and hookahs. They weren’t the first to blow glass hookahs and bongs, but their pieces are elegantly crafted, with a distinctive yet uniform design that gives each one a classy feel that even nonsmokers would appreciate.
High Times Magazine, December 1998
There are a number of reasons why potheads prefer glass. The best pipes and tubes are made from borosilicate glass, which means they’re shock resistant. They’re extremely hard to break. Even better, you can custom order in practically any style, color or shape you desire. They make fabulous gifts.
A glass pipe or hong can also be cleaned to look as good as new. Using rubbing alcohol and rock salt, the resin that builds up from smoking can be wiped clean with rags and pipe cleaners. Also, glass has health benefits over plastic, ceramic and metal pipes and bongs, as glass doesn’t give off harmful vapors or fumes like plastics and metals do when heated. Rubbing alcohol will completely sterilize your pipe and keep you free from harmful germs and bacteria.
Remember, plastics and ceramics are porous. Mold and bacteria can grow inside pores, which can irritate the throat. Most experts testify that glass pipes and bongs will provide the cleanest hits that your stash has to offer.
Good pipes start at around $20, while the ultimate custom piece could set you back a few thousand dollars. Your average tube runs about $150 to $250, but the price can go up according to the difficulty of the design and the cost of the materials.
The better quality pieces have gold and silver oxidized into the glass to imbue the pipe with the amazing ability to “color-change.” The glass doesn’t really change colors, but as pot resin lines the inside of the piece, the color of the pipe intensifies and rainbow-like effects occur. In effect, as you smoke, you create your own personalized work of art.
As the blowers take their talents further, often they go beyond mere smoking devices. Many pursue the greater goal of producing straight art pieces out of their shops. They reinvest the money earned from glass smokeware in the very best equipment available to produce soft-glass pieces—vases, paperweights, jewelry, decorative bowls, containers and goblets.
“Pipes led us to our love of glass, which inspires us to expand our creations into the art realm,” says Matt Romano, one of eight skilled blowers from Diablo Glass in Boulder, whose work is excruciatingly detailed in conception and color. “The money the Diablo team has generated is going toward a traditional-style glass furnace, which will allow us to expand our art to new heights.”
Glassblowing isn’t just a hobby for most of these artists, it’s a full-blown passion. “I live, breathe and bleed for each piece I produce,” says Jerome Baker. “I even dream of fire and flames. I’m so fixed on it all the time, it just stays with me.” Todd Pabilsag, from Pabilsag Glass in Boulder, relates, “The only problem with this business is that I want to smoke out of everything I make!” “The future, for us, will be global expansion,” says Sephra Baker of JBD. “The quality of the product can only get better and the designs will get more diverse.”
Well, while the glassblowers are working hard at creating the smoking accessories of the future, I’m going to take a few minutes to test out one of these beautiful pipes of today. If you haven’t had the opportunity to break in a virgin glass pipe or bong, you don’t know what you’ve been missing. It’s simple. Just pack the bowl with the finest buds you have stashed away, admire the sheer beauty of the pipe and fire it up. Forget about the future, let’s party like it’s 1999!
Of all the cities in California, few get less credit for their contributions to our collective culture than the state’s capital, Sacramento. Long dubbed the “City of Trees,” while it has certainly become a major hub for the cannabis industry, there’s also an incredible art community growing through the cracks that’s quietly powering the more visual aspects of the business. A perfect example of one of these aesthetic wizards is the Yellow Brick Group (YBG) crew. Best known throughout the country for their work with Alien Labs, the reach of YBG actually spans far further than cannabis—especially in the city they call home.
Founded by a group of long-time friends, Curtis Currier, Damian Lynch, and Shawn Kahan, in the few short years since its inception in 2018, YBG has already run the agency gamut. This includes creating brand identities and designing and producing merchandise and installations, and throwing their own events to support the community and cultures that they love and represent.
When it comes to supporting Sacramento, it’s clear there’s little that these guys think about besides putting on for their hometown. Given the amount of Our Street Night Markets they’ve thrown, it’s all too apparent that any free time (or money) they manage to find goes back toward shining the spotlight on the local delicacies they cherish so dearly, many of which are owned by their family and friends, old and new.
High Times Magazine, September 2023
“Everybody was leaving Sacramento,” Kahan tells me. “So many businesses that I know, that I grew up around, were closing down… Friends, you know, losing their houses… We wanted to create that revolving door where people feel like they can stay here and work on really cool stuff. That they don’t have to leave, to go to LA, or Portland, or the Bay Area.
“I saw this really great piece that said something like, ‘We have just as much talent here as any other place’ or ‘We have just as many important things going on here as other places,’ and we want people to know that. However, if they don’t, we really don’t care. Sacramento, being the state’s capital, you’ve kind of got all of California, right? Whereas like, not all of California has you.”
One of the pillars of the YBG is bringing that mentality to life. Showing the whole state, and the world at large, that the City of Trees deserves its flowers, too.
Courtesy Yellow Brick Group
The Team
The formation of YBG was a lot more organic than you’d expect. Although the team has now grown far larger than just the three of them, it’s still essentially a collective of friends who have a history building together, and figured out how to turn those projects into a real career. Kahan and Lynch grew up in the same neighborhood. They went to middle school together and met Currier later in life. While the team’s cohesiveness now may all seem serendipitous, it wasn’t a plan. In fact, on paper, YBG is an eclectic bunch.
Kahan had entrepreneurial tendencies from the jump, flipping packs and starting a clothing line to make money when he was still a teenager. Quickly legitimizing his first clothing brand after getting kicked out of high school for the aforementioned cannabis association, he scaled that first project up to placements in over 26 retailers both locally and internationally. Eventually he started to help talent, like five-time NBA All-Star from the Sacramento Kings DeMarcus Cousins and internationally acclaimed artist David Garibaldi, develop their own brands, alongside the creative pursuits he was exploring on his own within the city. He’s got this almost surfer rockstar vibe, sporting a man bun but typically wearing nice clothing, if that makes sense.
Courtesy Yellow Brick Group
Lynch, on the other hand, has a strong logistical mind and comes across much more straight-laced. Before eventually joining the Air Force, Lynch was throwing some of the biggest warehouse parties in Sacramento. Kahan eventually started helping him with build-outs, and promotions, but fitting the pieces together from permits to zoning immediately made sense to Lynch, and became a sweet spot he would rekindle after his time in the military with his first real career path: throwing healthcare fairs.
Currier—the oldest of the group—grew up just outside of downtown Sac. Skating from a young age—and when there were much fewer people doing it at the time as he likes to point out—he was exposed early to the wonders of art from hip-hop to DJing. His first job was working the front desk at an indoor skate park for the city (which I feel speaks volumes about Sacramento.) He developed a reputation for having parties of his own in high school because he loved to DJ and he didn’t consume cannabis, so the parents of his friends felt that their children were safe over at his house. This is sort of analogous to Currier as I know him—he loves to uplift those around him and is willing to carry the weight of making that happen. When he was working a high-paying engineering job traveling around the country, he would regularly invest his earnings into his friends’ pipe-dream projects just to “contribute to the betterment of what they were working on.” He got good at DJing too—eventually winning Red Bull’s coveted 3Style competition in Sac—alongside earning a design degree from Sacramento State University, where he graduated top of his class.
Once the YBG crew had fully formed, the synergies arose on their own. They were already collaborating, but eventually, sometime in the summer of 2017, Kahan had the idea to take it to the next level.
“It made a lot of sense to me to start an agency,” Kahan says. “But we already had that synergy, you know, growing up, working together. We worked on a lot of different projects. And then, yeah, when it came time to decide what I wanted to do for the next phase of my life, I really wanted to put together an agency, and like, these were the Avengers that I felt would make up the strongest unit.”
Courtesy Yellow Brick Group
The Foundation
With the intentions set, next came putting a name to the mission. While Iinstinctively thought Yellow Brick Group was a play on The Wizard of Oz, like following the yellow brick road to success or something, their explanation is far more thought out.
“Yellow bricks are what people used to refer to for gold bricks,” Kahan says about the city’s rich history in the California Gold Rush. “We wanted to have something that like, had a loose tie back to Sacramento, but we also thought it was an interesting way to kind of be that diamond in the rough.”
Currier explains how the hardest part of the name was actually the “Group.” First they talked about “Creative Agency” and “Design Firm,” but the guys didn’t want to be put in a box. They were a catch-all, and felt their name should represent that.
Courtesy Yellow Brick Group
The Night Market
YBG launched its first Night Market about six months after operation began. Designed to be a platform for Sacramento, they built this for their community to network and grow. The Our Street Night Market is the kind of place where local chefs can try out new menu items and make new fans. It’s where local artists can get their name out there and sell some of their work. It’s how they support their friends’ businesses, and how they give people the opportunity to reach tens of thousands of people. For the first event they didn’t charge anyone, and expected maybe 2,000 people to come out. It cost them around $50,000, but it was an investment in their brand, and in their city. About six times as many people showed up for that first event and they’ve since thrown four more.
“We were trying to collapse timeframes, if that makes sense. We felt that if we could pull that off, people can see a lot of what we were capable of, right? The design, the marketing… you know, event production,” Kahan explains.
Courtesy Yellow Brick Group
Playing with Cannabis
Now, when it comes to standing out in our industry, we all know the most important thing is the flower, of course. But the next most important thing? That’s the branding, and it’s not just the graphic on your mylar or the logo you’re going to run with. Crafting a solid brand identity is paramount in building a successful company, especially one that’s meant to last a long time.
“Everything has to have a ‘Why’ behind it. I am constantly bringing this up when we talk to clients. I ask them ‘Why?’ all the time,” Currier says. “We question the ideas. But it’s not like a gotcha moment, or to like, be dismissive or whatever, it’s because if you can’t answer the ‘Why’ on something, there’s generally holes in it. Our job is to poke holes to find the fill.”
Kahan believes what makes YBG unique is their strong understanding of cannabis culture.
“It’s either you understand it but you can’t execute, or you can execute but you have no idea what’s going on in the industry,” he says. “There was this idea that moms, or generations of moms, were going to come in and, I don’t know, change the way we understood weed? What do soccer moms know about weed? We knew that wasn’t going to happen, and I think we felt this similar sense of responsibility that we did in our city as we looked at the cannabis industry.”
Courtesy Yellow Brick Group
Staying Home
At the end of the day, no matter the client, it’s clear that what’s most important to YBG is the work they’re doing, and the community they’re fostering.
“We wanted to create that space that we didn’t feel like existed,” Kahan says.
While they definitely take work from outside the city, it’s clear that their passion ignites for locals. Today about 85% of the work they do is either for someone in, or for the city of, Sacramento.
“Now people say, ‘Wow, it’s really exciting that we finally have a local group that we don’t have to go outside Sacramento to get that type of work done,’” Currier tells me with pride. “We feel super stoked on that. Everyone thought—even here locally— that if you want something that’s going to like, upgrade the city, or make it cool, then you can’t pull it from here, because, not cool, right? Nah! If you track it back, there’s so much of us in music, and skate culture, or there’s people from Sacramento that are involved with major fashion and things like that.”
For YBG success lies in building community, brick by brick.
“I think Sacramento in general is a really collaborative town,” Kahan says. “And we look to each other to build things together.”
This article was originally published in the September 2023 issue of High Times Magazine.
After working in the legal weed industry for the better part of the last decade, I can’t help but feel despondent. I don’t want to, but I do. More often than not, it feels like the industry is moving further and further away from the ethos carried out by advocates over the decades. From the actions to the products to many of the industry events—much of it feels fabricated and forced.
Maybe it’s just the marketing efforts of thousands of startup brands collectively trying to be seen, but much of the legal space feels vastly different from the weed world I grew up in. If it isn’t a sus product or pitch person, it’s the brand messaging, often trying to force some plant misnomers, or worse, summarize cannabis culture—a vastly nuanced plant and community—into a convenient package that fits their narrative.
My despondence only grows when encountering many company leaders, lawmakers and others who tend to say the right thing but never deliver the results, whether it be lip service or unfulfilled good intentions. In worse cases, some people are in it for themselves, often producing subpar products that only satisfy investors and oblivious consumers.
To be fair, there’s been a significant deal of pushback by those who are what many consider true to plant culture. But often, the voices are few and far between, especially when removing social media criticism from the equation. For some time now, I’ve hypothesized that the cannabis industry would benefit from an injection of punk ethos, where both advocates and industry operators remain vigilant in protecting the values of the plant while championing community-minded efforts.
These outspoken people need to be authentic, genuinely placing the interests of the plant and the community above their own interests and agendas. I’m not talking about gatekeepers masquerading as protectors of the culture, like so many in punk, pot and other passionate communities end up being. Instead, I want to see more people pushing back against deviations from plant culture and ideals whenever possible.
But as someone who could barely qualify as pop punk at their most rebellious stage, who am I to champion this idea? Instead of doing that, I asked the few self-identifying punks in the weed world I could find and some punk musicians to explore this idea to see if it carries any weight.
Industry Dynamics and Punk Ethos: A Needed Clash?
Most people get into punk and pot around their early to late teens. There are exceptions, but most seem to come across one or both during their youth or young adulthood. A person’s views about punk tend to shift like their weed consumption. Over time, how each fits into a person’s life often changes. While some hold rigid rules about one or both topics, others feel they should suit your life as needed.
“Punk is whatever you take from it,” said Damian Abraham, lead singer of Fucked Up and host of the Turned Out a Punk podcast. “It’s like a religion,” added Abraham, a weed, wrestling and punk journalist.
That’s certainly true when you break down the vast categories of punk, with some claiming that the only shared connection among each subgroup is their fondness for the music. That’s a fair argument, especially when comparing the near polar opposite views of groups like Anarcho-punks versus Neo-Nazi skinheads, who have regularly clashed over the years concerning their enormously different views. While weed hasn’t seen many violent clashes, there’s no doubt several subcategories in today’s scene, ranging from OGs to capitalists to stock bros to patients and many in between, often clash online or through in-person discussions.
“I think punk is and should be a big tent,” said Adam Uzialko, a self-described punk and co-founder of marketing firm CannaContent. He believes punk represents “an attitude that prioritizes independence, solidarity, and mutual aid.” Uzialko feels many in cannabis represent punk beliefs, whether they identify or not.
The feeling was echoed by other respondents, with some noting that opposition to law enforcement and the establishment was shared by punks and pot enthusiasts. Collaborative or collective cannabis brands, where ownership is shared among employees or through collective licenses, are another example of where communal-minded business practices appear in cannabis. However, such ventures are currently few and far between, with most companies instead gunning for market shares and/or dominance.
At the same time, some respondents felt that big business and government compliance forced most punks to remain in the underground market.
“Cannabis would thrive if more people had the punk mentality and not the government boot-licking that has become the norm in how laws are written,” said Robbie Wroblewski, a Colorado-based self-identified punk, cannabis marketer and former professional grower. He added that punks must take up the charge, but “There is just no fighting the money, and that is a bummer.”
A feeling shared by some punks and other groups over the years has been one that sees them playing within the confines of the marketplace. In this case, they can create change and earn a living within the industry. Nathan Williams is often linked to punk through his band Wavves and his record label, Ghost Ramp. Williams, who doesn’t claim to be punk at this point in his life, thinks people can ethically operate in weed and other businesses by holding onto their values.
“I think, basically, the only thing is not playing ball with the people that you think are ethically doing something you don’t agree with,” he said, adding “I’ve been able to make money and do things my way, and I’ve had to pass up some opportunities for big money,” he said. Williams entered the weed space this past year with his San Diego-based brand Wavvy Supply Company.
Are The Punks Already In Pot?
It depends on who you ask. After only hearing from a few individuals, I stand by the hypothesis that there is a shortage of punks in legal cannabis. The responses I’ve received and years of first-hand experience lead me to believe that is the case. But maybe I’m just thinking of the classic image of a punk with their battle vests and hearts on their sleeves. Perhaps, like the average pot smoker, there is no standard look for a punk, especially an older one.
As many punks age, the anger and resentment fade, which is good for a person’s health but may also reduce the fire that burns for change. Some feel that their personal evolution has led to a more mature, less agitated approach to life, justice and industry. While still deeply rooted in communal and equality-driven ethos, their actions have changed, often transforming into more workplace-suitable measures. I assume many of these individuals see themselves as making change from within as they gain power, money and influence. While this can certainly be true, it would be fair to assume many others avoid this path for fear of being “corrupted,” putting them at risk of becoming the problem they want to correct.
Maybe the aggressive punk approach doesn’t work when social media is overflowing with angry hot takes about every imaginable topic. Fucked Up’s Abraham didn’t touch on that thought but suggested an educational approach that may help educate the masses.
“We need Ian MacKaye,” he said, saying that the Minor Threat and Fugazi alum, who is credited with regularly challenging norms over the decades, is “Someone who’s doing it with some sort of ideal in some sort of sense…some sort of ethics about the plan.” MacKaye is also credited with birthing the anti-drinking, anti-drug lifestyle known as straight edge.
Education is undoubtedly needed, but what about when the public or business leaders want to keep their heads in the sand? Will proponents of change continue to push up the hill, hoping to one day break through and reach the masses? Or, will many continue to operate in the unlicensed market, where plant passion and education are often more accepted?
Maybe there are more punks in legal cannabis than I thought. If so, here’s hoping they can create change from the inside. But, at this current juncture, it’s more likely that the punk mindset and way of life will persist mainly on the underground instead of running up against the politics and capitalism running rampant in today’s legal space.
A New Hampshire cannabis panel, officially called the “Commission to Study With the Purpose of Proposing Legalization, State Controlled Sales of Cannabis and Cannabis Products,” held its most recent meeting after it was created this summer with the intention of presenting draft bill recommendations by Dec. 1, 2023. Legislators will discuss the recommendations next year during the 2024 legislative session.
New Hampshire Gov. Chris Sununu signed House Bill 611 to establish the commission in August, stating that it will allow experts to discuss the best course of action. “New Hampshire has an opportunity to safely regulate the sale of marijuana with a model few others can provide,” said Sununu. “By establishing a commission to study state-controlled sales, this bill will bring stakeholders from across New Hampshire together to ensure that preventing negative impacts upon kids remains our number one priority.”
Since its creation, the commission has held five meetings on Sept. 8, Sept. 18, Oct. 5, Oct. 19, Oct. 24, with the next meeting set for Nov. 3. According to N.H. Rev. Stat. § 176:16-b, the goal of the commission is “to study with the purpose of proposing legislation, state-controlled sales of cannabis and cannabis products.”
Sen. Timothy Lang kicked off the most recent meeting to clarify the commission’s goals. “We’re not here to discuss legalization, we’re here to discuss how to put a bill forward that would do legalization, but do it in the matter that is most protective of our citizens and our regulations,” said Lang. “The charge of the commission is to put the best bill forward possible if legalization were to happen in a state-controlled model.” He added that their goal is to determine what should be added to the bill to address their various concerns, and also what would make New Hampshire’s legalization “better than Colorado.”
The first half of the meeting consisted of hearing from three individuals. First up was Dr. Omar Shaw (an adult and child psychiatrist and addiction medicine specialist, as well as faculty at Boston Children’s Hospital and instructor at Harvard Medical School) stated that he doesn’t see benefits of cannabis outside of FDA-approved seizure medicine. “Once you get away from these conditions, it’s very hard to see the benefits overall compared to the potential side effects it has,” Shaw stated. When asked about what he would add to legislation to address his concerns, he suggested a minimum age of 25 for consumption because that’s when brain growth begins to slow. However, he also added that if it were up to him, he would ban alcohol and nicotine too.
Amy Turncliff was the second speaker, who explained that she has a pHD in neurobiology with postdoctoral training at Harvard Medical School, with expertise in mental health and substance abuse disorders, as well as cannabis use and policy. She advised it would be best to create a legalization bill that “would mitigate those negative impacts” of both youth and adult consumers who could be at risk of psychotic disorders. But then she added that she doesn’t think that can be mitigated. “Those of us who are public health advocates do believe that there will be a reckoning down the road…Maybe a decade or more from now, all of this is going to come tumbling out,” Turncliff said.
The third speaker was Scott Gagnon, a certified prevention specialist and anti-cannabis advocate from Maine who led the coalition against cannabis in that state in 2016. He began by explaining that progress was undone by legislators who didn’t take the impacts of cannabis seriously. “You can put forward the best legislation that’s ever happened in this country when it comes to cannabis legalization, but the work after it is going to be just as important to protect what to protect what you put in there,” Gagnon said.
The floor was open to public comment following Gagnon’s speaking time, leading with USDA licensed hemp cultivator, Jim Riddle. He brought up a recent New Hampshire farmer survey which showed that 87% were supportive of legalization “in general”, and 78% have “expressed interest” in growing cannabis. Riddle also added that a more restrictive legalization bill will lead to more issues with an illegal industry. “The more barriers to being a legal player, the more you’re favoring the illegal market,” Riddle said.
After a brief break, the panel returned to discuss the current draft of the 37-page bill, but only proceeded to review a few pages before concluding for the day.
At a previous meeting on Sept. 18, the panel considered a state-run model for legalization, according to New Hampshire Liquor Commission chairman Joseph Mollica. “The model that we are looking to put into place, that we feel would be feasible, is that the Liquor Commission would be the franchisor and the franchisee would be the retailer,” Mollica said. Essentially, the liquor commission would control all “safety aspects of selling the product.”
Talking to Devendra Banhart is somewhat akin to listening to a Devendra Banhart album. You let go and simply go with the flow. At one point during our conversation, Banhart describes his love for sad songs and horror movies, comparing them to a ride. Having a conversation with Banhart is a similar experience. Discard the notes, forget any questions, and just enjoy as Banhart’s focus wanders while he discusses his latest album, Flying Wig, and the classic Los Del Río tune, the “Macarena.”
Perhaps the 30th anniversary of the song was on Banhart’s mind?
Whatever the case may be, Banhart had a lot of thoughts on the song from Antonio Romero Monge and Rafael Ruiz Perdigones. The song became a massive hit in 1996, getting the entire planet dancing with delight. Banhart believes the song can not only unite us once again but perhaps even make us some alien friends.
On that note, Banhart’s soothing album is now out in the world, and he’s hitting the road for a tour. Most importantly, he’s thinking a lot about the “Macarena.”
You like to start your day with music. What were you listening to this morning?
I was listening to one of my favorite songs of all time, called “Maki Madni” from Nusrat Fateh Ali Khan. I realized that I don’t know what the words are, so I’ve been trying to Google translate while I listen to this song. And then I listened to a little bit of Roger Eno. This is good, I’m giving a very thorough answer. And then my friend Bob was like, “You got to listen to this person.” I can’t think of their name now. How about you? What were you listening to?
Honestly, the new Queens of the Stone Age album from the summer. I can’t let go of that one.
I’ve heard that it’s quite good. The thing is, I will always have a sweet and soft spot for them. My hero is, one of my reasons I play music is this musician Caetano Veloso and he loves them. It just inadvertently, I’m always like, oh, they’re cool.
How was your experience translating lyrics? Did it change how you interpreted the song?
They’re mostly bumming me out because it’s just so much better than anything I could ever write. I know that it’s a terrible translation. But one) oh my God, that translation is a thousand times better than anything I could ever write. And then two) because it’s a bad translation, I’m not getting the full color and the metaphor and the full image. So that’s depressing, only because I don’t know the language and I won’t probably ever learn that language. On my to-do list it goes, learn Sanskrit, learn Tibetan, learn Japanese, and I am never going to do it. Please, please fucking Tim Cook, make this shit happen. Put a chip in my brain.
At the same time, it’s funny that we’re talking about this magazine that I grew up not fetishizing, but almost being seduced by in this similar way that maybe as an adolescent you might see a porn mag. It was so beguiling and so enticing and exciting and it was a glimpse into a world that I had no access to. High Times is a lot like that, too. I was like, “Whoa, that’s interesting. This is cool. This is the coolest world and I have no access to that and I want to be a part of that world.” I always have this theory that with the right combination of plant medicine, you can access every language.
When did that theory start?
I’ve always had it. In fact, one of my best friends, Mel, was in Greece and she got super high on some Greek weed, I guess, or was probably something that she had in her suitcase. And then she’s like, “I knew Greek. I knew Greek. I was so high in this particular way, I knew Greek. I accessed the Rosetta Stone.” [laughs] I think that’s possible. I wouldn’t be surprised if, I’m sure Terence McKenna has a whole 5,000 hour talk about how it’s totally accessible through some plant medicine.
A good example is, you played with Carla Morrison at the Hollywood Bowl, and I don’t speak the language, but when I hear her singing it moves me. I don’t know if the lyrics are tragic or if they’re hopeful, though.
It would be amazing if the lyrics to “Macarena” were the most heartbreaking, gorgeous poetry imaginable. It’s, like, “Macarena” by [writer] Gabriel García Márquez. You never know. One of my favorite songs of all time is by Cesária Évora. It’s called “Petit Pays,” little country. It’s just a longing song, and I just know exactly what she’s singing about. I don’t know that language. I don’t speak Portuguese, but I can feel her speaking to me in a way that the only way I can equate it is dream logic. Listening to powerful music in the language you don’t understand is the equivalent to dream logic. Rarely, though, do I go and try to look up what the words are.
So, this morning I just had this feeling. I grew up listening to Ali Farka Touré as well. I don’t know actually what he’s saying. So, today I was going to go through this one record called Radio Mali that I really fucking wore out. I listened to the shit out of that record when I was a kid. My dad gave it to me. I sing it. I’m singing these words, I don’t have no clue what he’s saying. So we’ll see… What if it’s just, “someday a great politician named Trump will rise”? Who knows? What if turns out I love this pro-Trump sound [laughs].
[laughs] Man, worst case scenario thinking right there.
But yeah, no, it’s a really fun extra kind of dimension to putting in a little bit of work into the music that you love. Just looking up who produced it, looking up who played on that instrument always leads to other records. Oh, that guitar player that played on that record made a solo record. Let’s check that out. And this is the same thing with lyrics. I love the songs in a different language, but let’s look up what the lyrics are. “Oh, okay, based on a poem by blah blah, blah. Let’s get that person’s book.” It’s a very fun archeological dig.
Photo credit: Dana Trippe
So, you got bummed looking at these lovely lyrics on Google translate. As a successful songwriter, does that feeling never stop, like,oh, I’ll never be that good as this song?
That’s never gone away for a second. But the paradox is that within the thought, “Wow, I’ll never write anything as good as this,” there’s also, “Wow, I’m such a good writer.” There are two insane extremes. Rarely am I like, “Well, I’m an okay writer. I’ve dedicated my life to it. I know how much I work on it, and it’s okay. The world will keep going when I’m gone. It’s not a big deal, but it’s not the worst, either.” Now, that’s how it should be.
But the reality is mostly, “I’m the greatest writer that’s ever lived of all time, and I’m the biggest piece of shit and everything should be burnt. What am I doing?!” It’s really there where it mostly is. It should be just, “Okay, I do my work.” It’s such a funny thing, such a bummer. It’s a sweet bummer because Google Translate is doing something without trying that I spend 12 hours trying to do while writing, which is: counterpoint.
Counterpoint is what makes poetry interesting, what makes writing a song with a theme that is so fucking banal, possibly interesting. You’ve heard what this song is about a million times. So, how can this be interesting is counterpoint, the poetry of it, and the symbolism. Trying to be a non-subjective human being is impossible with your own work. You’re trying to do that, trying to even trip yourself up and create a little hiccup in your own narrative, in your own linear, let’s say, pathway.
You’re trying to chop down some new pathway in this jungle, but Google Translate just happens to do it so perfectly. “Fuck! Why couldn’t I think of that? That’s exactly what I wanted to do.” There’s a lot of that. I’m trying to psych myself out.
For the new album, what were some new paths you wanted to journey down?
Well, it was a collaborative thing. I wasn’t alone, just me and my machete trying to hack my way through the brambles and tangles and vines. I was there with Cate. So, [producer] Cate Le Bon was such a wonderful fucking partner. It was supposed to be co-produced, but five minutes into tracking, I just said, “Cate, you’re producing. I trust you so much.” Trust is so, like, oh my goodness. It’s a real waterfall of nectar to discover trust. That’s why it’s so painful when trust is betrayed, because it’s so extraordinary when you find it, when you feel it. I mean, “I trust you” should be more powerful than “I love you,” you know what I mean? I love burritos, but I don’t trust burritos. Now, “I trust you,” it’s like, whoa.
I think we were surprised that we were in this natural, beautiful country, classic California environment, even with a bit of that California history in it. It was the house where Neil Young had written “After the Gold Rush,” and we’re feeling that. There’s just gorgeous trees everywhere and hawks flying around and we’re in that pastoral California feeling. I’m listening to the Grateful Dead or ambient music pretty much nonstop.
Amidst this totally pastoral environment, we make this record that to me and to Cate, I guess, sounds like the desolate and more dystopian side of Japanese City pop. We’re trying to create something that feels like if you were watching Blade Runner and the camera just moves away from Harrison Ford and focuses on an extra, and then the extra goes to their therapist. “Yeah, today it was blah, blah, blah,” and then they went shopping. We have the soundtrack for this extra in Blade Runner. So, that to me was surprising because we were in the complete opposite of that environment.
[Laughs] Also, it’s funny, I wrote in my notes that the album feels like – and I know it’s a cliche – just a cool breeze.
Wow, that’s amazing. That makes me so happy. Because it’s a beautiful thing to share and have somebody feel what you’re doing. We didn’t see any of that. We were feeling the cool breeze while we were recording, but we were like, Oh my God, this is so funny. It’s the opposite of a cool breeze. This is a hot fart, synthetic hot fart.” [laughs]
[Laughs] Well, it’s like that thing you’re saying with, “Hey, what if you translated the ‘Macarena’ song”? Maybe the content and the execution are just the complete opposite. Ya’ never know what the true feeling is sometimes.
I actually just looked up “Macarena” lyrics. The first line is, “I am not trying to seduce you. When I dance, they call me Macarena and the boys, they say that I’m good. They all want me. They can’t have me come and dance beside me. They move with me, they chant with me. And if you’re good, I’ll take you home with me.” Okay. I mean, yeah, it’s a seduction dance. I was hoping for something a little bit more… What a bummer.
That was actually very nice to hear [laughs]. My favorite song off the album is “Twin.” Like for that song, when do you know in your gut, you really want to sit with a song and let it breathe as much as that one does?
I guess that’s getting into the realm of process and intuition. I overdo it. I am a real quantity over quality person. I’ll do 100 drawings, so I get the two that I can show that are okay. And so, you arrive at that place of here’s the appropriate length with overdoing it and then underdoing it; it’s the only way I can figure it out.
I never know immediately. It’s never clear. I never have any idea. And then also, I think Cate is much more of an interesting person all around, a much more artistic person all around and a much better player and singer. It doesn’t hurt. I mean, if you’re going to make a record with someone, try to get somebody that’s much better at everything than you, it helps. She would push it.
My favorite type of poetry is haiku and my favorite book has, like, one word in it. I like to bring it back in as short as possible, while Cate would much prefer to pace it out, give it time. So, that was part of our dynamic. A lot of the meeting in the middle was the length of these songs. For “Twin,” Cate’s version could have been 20 minutes and I would’ve preferred a 45 second version of that.
I want to give you a festival. I want to have a festival, and all the 100 bands play half a song. That’s a good festival. I mean, I would be into that festival.
Have you pitched that idea to anyone?
Kind of a speed freak festival. We’d have the highest organic Ritalin for sale, I’m sure, but it’d be like, “Here’s the hook of my tune and the next band. Okay, thank you. Next band. Wow.“
Do you think people would be satisfied?
What are these three-hour sets? Who the fuck wants a three-hour set? That blows my mind. It hurts to sit for that long and it hurts to stand for that long. I mean, okay, if we have Casper, the Casper Festival, everybody gets a bed and a toilet. Okay, we’ll do a three hour set.
Valid points, I say.
That’d be a nice festival, right? Everyone gets a lazy boy and a toilet. Fuck that would be awesome.
So, when you’re on tour—
Okay, let’s get it together. Yeah, let’s do it [laughs].
[Laughs] I’ll make some calls. You’re about to go on tour. What do you expect or hope for playing these new songs live?
Well, we haven’t presented them the way that we are about to begin presenting them. I’m actually quite jetlagged. I got back from India yesterday. Now, this work begins by trying to really work out how to present these tunes. Some of these songs are going to stick, some won’t. We’ll be so excited to present them as close to whatever, as close to the record I guess, as possible. But so far, I’ve only really noticed something with my favorite song on the record. The one that means the most is a song called “Charger.”
The first line is so dumb: “It looks like I lost my charger.” Even though subconsciously the reality of losing my charger for me, at least, is real anxiety. Genuine anxiety and kind of panic and terror. It means losing my charger is actually quite awful, but it’s such a silly thing to sing.
I’ve only played it a handful of times, but people laugh at the first line, like, people crack up. The song is actually quite serious. And so towards the end, the mood changes so much and the feeling in the room changes so much. So, that’s so fun to experience. I’m the butt of the joke at the start of that song. And towards the end, we’re all in a very different zone.
That’s a nice arc. It’s like when you laugh at a character in a movie, and then by the end, you feel terrible for having laughed at them.
That’s right. I just love making people feel bad. This is the main thing that I’m into. It’s the only thing that gets me going [laughs].
[laughs] I don’t think your music makes people feel bad.
Everything makes me feel bad.
I’m sorry.
I love it, though. You see? It’s funny. Making a song, I mean, I love a sad song. My favorite song is the sad song. It’s going on a roller coaster ride. I like a sad song. I like a horror film. If it’s done right, it just takes me away. It’s a ride. And crying feels good. It’s embarrassing and humiliating, obviously, when you’re not trying to cry.
I mean, I cry, just coming up with a lyric. It’ll always emerge at the worst time. And I don’t have a pen or a paper or something to record it. It’s just like, whoa. That’s where it comes up, where it emerges.
And then the same thing with weeping, it’s never here alone in the house. It’s like at the post office or ordering a cup of coffee. Suddenly something just hits me, maybe the way somebody speaks to someone or the way somebody is opening the door for someone. Just a moment of real kindness, and I fucking lose it. I lose it. It’s such a cleansing, beautiful feeling.
So, this thing of, is that a sad song? Is that a happy song? Yeah, I don’t understand. I mean, “Macarena,” I really want to do a cover of “Macarena” that’ll make people cry [laughs]. I’m excited to give that a shot. A really dark, sad, sad version. Oh, yeah, that’s exciting. I’m getting Nick Cave to do “Macarena.”
You should work on this today.
You got it. The lyrics are right here in front of me. Yeah, because there’s something here… “But don’t you worry about my boyfriend. He’s a boy whose name is Vitorino. I don’t want him. Couldn’t stand him. He was no good.” I mean, that’s already like, whoa, heartbreaking.
Photo credit: Dana Trippe
Do you ever cry at concerts?
I think one of the most special parts of writing and recording and then presenting music is there are not that many places where we are collectively weeping. There’s funerals and, of course, that’s the ultimate in a way, that’s the main place where we’re collectively weeping. Maybe the theater, except that we’re not really seeing each other in the dark.
It’s at a show where that real collective weeping is happening in a very particular way. It doesn’t happen too often. It really builds, even on a subconscious level, a feeling of community, which we really all long for, especially in the West. We don’t live this life. We don’t go to school, and they’re like, well, today we’re going to learn a bunch of things, but the most important one is ritual, healing, and community.” You’re never going to hear that ever. But those are the three things that we really need in our lives. We really long for these things, subconsciously and unconsciously.
Going to a concert has all three elements. There’s a ritual. It is absurd. A concert, you don’t need a concert, nobody needs a concert, that’s such an absurd thing [laughs]. But, of course, it’s so important. In the eyes of a kind of very materialistic and western logical scientific world, a concert is the most absurd thing ever. But you could look at all art that way, of course, as well as religion and spirituality. Of course, these are also the most important things.
So, there’s a ritual there [at concerts]. It’s a community. You’re around people. You don’t have to talk to any of these people, but just being around them and sharing that collective experience that is so even subconsciously meaningful and precious. And then healing. I mean, that’s the main thing. Born to heal. I was born just fucking straight out of the womb wishing to heal.
I saw Shannon Lay playing a set her acoustic guitar and singing, and then she sang an acapella song, fucking acapella, and everyone lost it. You can have a million bells and whistles, and that really can hit hard, too, or you can just go do something as simple as acapella, as pure as acapella. It could also be the most mortifying, embarrassing thing on the planet. I mean, really, it could be the most like, “Oh my God, please can this end?” But when it’s done right, it’s so beautiful. So beautiful.
Yeah, I agree.
I’m not sure what the point was, but back to the “Macarena.”
[laughs] We’ll circle back to “Macarena,” but I have to ask you about India. How was your experience? Were you there for work?
In a sense, I was there for work. I’m actually meaning to explain that to all the people I work with, because I went there to meet up with my teacher, who’s in Himachal Pradesh in the north of India, very near Dharamsala. I went just to be at the monastery. My teacher has a monastery there.
When I say it’s for work, it’s because I’m about to start this tour, so I needed to go there and get a few things cleared up, do a little bit of that purification work, and a little bit of work to just be even more present. It’s for the benefit of work. Yeah, I was just in India with my teacher doing some stuff [laughs].
And did it work? Feel more present?
Well, I did there, I did there. But the second I got back I was like, “Blah, back to it.”
But you could circle back to that feeling.
Yeah, sure. I could give it a shot. I can give it a shot.
Good luck. Any closing statement on “Macarena”?
Well, I’m scared of global warming. It pretty fucking hot right now. I think we fucked up the planet to a possibly totally reversible place. All that is to say the only solution is the “Macarena.” I think the “Macarena” is the only solution. We need to broadcast the “Macarena” on our biggest satellites out into space. It’s the only thing the aliens are going to listen to. Fuck the Voyager. You know what I mean? Putting Blind Willie Johnson on there? Give me a break. I’m talking about the “Macarena.” That’s the only thing that the aliens will go, “Oh wow, this is an advanced society and we need to preserve these people.”
[Laughs] Thank you for the time, Devendra.
Wish I’d known that we were going to talk about “Macarena” the whole time. This is, like, a dream for me, know what I mean? I’m talking to High Times about the fucking “Macarena”! I feel I’ve had a… high time? Hey, ha-ha! Alright, I’ll talk to you later, man.
